**OFFICIAL CAMPAIGN STATEMENT**
**Robert R. Motta for President 2028**

**FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE**
**May 6, 2026**
**Shorewood, Illinois**

To all Americans, to every voter — Democrat, Republican, Independent, and unaffiliated — and especially to our military veterans, active-duty service members, their families, and every survivor of trauma:

I speak to you today as a proud son of a U.S. Marine and a candidate who has never taken a single dollar from billionaires, corporations, or special interests. I stand unequivocally with **William “Sascha” Riley**, a decorated U.S. Army veteran who served our nation with honor for over 21 years, and with **every male and female survivor** of child trafficking, sexual exploitation, and abuse connected to Jeffrey Epstein’s network and similar elite operations.

Sascha Riley’s courageous testimony deserves to be heard in full, investigated thoroughly and independently, and met with real justice — not silence or cover-ups. To Sascha, to every survivor in uniform or out, and to every victim who has carried this burden alone: **you are not alone**. The Motta campaign stands with you without hesitation or reservation. Your voices will be amplified, protected, and honored.

I was not able to serve myself, but I come from a family that answered the call. My father, **Raymond E. Motta**, served in the United States Marine Corps during the Vietnam War and was awarded the Purple Heart for wounds received in combat. My uncle, **Louis Motta**, served in the U.S. Army Air Force and later dedicated years of his life to supporting veterans through his work connected to the VA system. Their service and sacrifice shape my deep commitment to those who wear the uniform and to those who bear the invisible scars of war and government service.

To every veteran reading this — whether you fought in combat theaters, endured toxic burn-pit exposures, battled Gulf War Illness, worked in classified programs at **Area 51** and other special-access sites, or continue to serve today — know this: **I have your six**.

In a Motta Administration, we will deliver:

- The immediate, complete, and unredacted release of **all** Jeffrey Epstein files, flight logs, client lists, and related intelligence records.
- Full, independent investigations into credible allegations of high-level child trafficking and abuse — with **no one**, regardless of political party, wealth, or position, above the law.
- Comprehensive, lifelong support, legal protections, mental health care, and restitution for all survivors of trafficking and sexual violence.
- Expanded VA healthcare, full benefits, and radical transparency for veterans suffering from toxic exposures, radiation, experimental chemicals, and the hidden costs of classified service — including Area 51 and other black-project veterans.
- Real accountability and improved care for the invisible wounds that so many carry home.

This is not a partisan issue. It is a moral imperative and a matter of national honor. The same system that has too often failed our veterans has also failed to protect our most vulnerable children. That ends when the American people take back their government.

To every American — from the heartland to the coasts, from the barracks to the voting booth — the era of elite impunity is over. Join us at **www.votemotta2028.com**. Stand with survivors. Honor our veterans. Demand full truth and accountability.

**Truth. Accountability. America First.**

**Robert R. Motta**
Independent Candidate for President of the United States
2028
**www.votemotta2028.com**

This video features a candid and deeply disturbing interview between William Sascha Riley, a survivor of severe child abuse, and interviewer Lisa Noelle Voldeng. Recorded on July 18, 2025, the conversation focuses on Riley's first-hand account of being a victim of a criminal network involving child trafficking, torture, and murder, which he alleges was orchestrated by Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump (1:43, 17:31, 1:14:14).

Key topics discussed include:

  • Child Trafficking and Abuse: Riley describes a systematic pattern of abuse he experienced as a child, including being sold by his adoptive parents, William Kyle Riley and Mary Lynn Riley, to affluent individuals at various locations, including farms (14:58, 24:45, 33:01).
  • Allegations Against Public Figures: Riley details encounters with Donald Trump, Jim Jordan, and Andy Biggs. He specifically recounts an incident involving Trump where he claims he caused significant injury to Trump in self-defense (24:45, 27:54, 46:48, 50:04).
  • Military Involvement and Evidence: Riley discusses his time in the military, mentioning a 2008–2009 incident where he was questioned by his chain of command, specifically Michael Bis and Captain Kasanto, after child pornography was discovered on a fellow soldier's (Staff Sergeant Hable) computer that contained images of Riley (4:52, 6:44, 11:31, 13:06).
  • Systemic Corruption and Fear: Riley explains the psychological and physical terror he faced, noting that his abusers attempted to keep him silent by forcing him to participate in abusive acts against others, which were then recorded as blackmail (36:44, 37:46, 46:11).
  • Witnessing Atrocities: He provides accounts of witnessing the deaths of other victims, including a girl named Samantha and a man whose name he does not provide, and describes the cleaning of crime scenes (14:31, 111:57, 112:18, 112:38).

Throughout the interview, Voldeng emphasizes the importance of Riley's testimony for potential legal action through international courts and discusses the necessity of preserving his account as evidence (1:53, 2:53, 107:27).

Transcript

Okay.
1 second
Um, so I just want to clarify in terms of date, July 18th, 2025.
8 seconds
My full name, Leel Volding. And Riley,
12 seconds
you want to state your name and any My name is William. Oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt.
21 seconds
Uh, my name is William Sasha Riley. I was born Manuel Sasha Barlos.
27 seconds
Okay. But my legal name is William Sasha Riley at this time.
31 seconds
Okay. And I'm just so we're clear, I'm based in Victoria, British Columbia,
36 seconds
Canada. I lived in the United States full-time for a bunch of years, but I was brought up in Canada. My citizenship's Canadian
45 seconds
and we might be neighbors at some point because Canada is right now number two on the list of the countries that I am potentially going to move to.
54 seconds
You know, I think it's a good place to look. There's a lot of there's a lot of Americans actually I've spoken to Americans that I've said is I've told to
1 minute, 2 seconds
to come here and there's lots of Americans that have come to visit more and it's a lot more embracing inclusive
1 minute, 10 seconds
of a culture. So, you know, it's quite lovely. I recommend in terms of what my approach really what
1 minute, 18 seconds
I wanted to do is like to just really like a thorough discussion. you tell me everything that that you've been wanting to say and I I'll ask some questions.
1 minute, 31 seconds
This might be one of like however many however many discussions and I'll record them if it's one, if it's 10.
1 minute, 37 seconds
And what I'd like to do I'm I'm sort of recording with an eye to a your testimony getting your testimony of what
1 minute, 46 seconds
you you experienced, what abuse you suffered, and what you were witnessed to. and and I in terms of being able to
1 minute, 53 seconds
to get into a format in terms of an affidavit whether we look at getting help from the international criminal court
2 minutes, 2 seconds
cuz obviously what you know you and I have discussed already there's definitely a whole whack of crimes that
2 minutes, 9 seconds
that have been getting committed by a lot of folks and um is even a case where there could be crimes against humanity
2 minutes, 17 seconds
charges in regards to Trump. So, and what else I'd like to do is is I'd like
2 minutes, 25 seconds
to look at whether whether you would be okay with, you know, me like transcribing and then
2 minutes, 34 seconds
publishing something. I publish newsletters selectively. I have a newsletter called Outlaws of Chivalry. I p publish once in
2 minutes, 42 seconds
a while and I was looking at perhaps publishing there if you're okay in terms of how could help us in terms of um
2 minutes, 51 seconds
getting the right legal support in terms of the international war court.
2 minutes, 57 seconds
I am I am for whatever puts a light on this because in my mind the powers that
3 minutes, 5 seconds
be have are already uh aware of my position on it and aware that I have spoken up and
3 minutes, 14 seconds
you know the more light that is shed on there I don't think that I'm incurring more risk except for some maybe lunatic
3 minutes, 22 seconds
that wants to uh [gasps] be a soul soldier for Donald Trump because they are a little a little crazy. They're a
3 minutes, 32 seconds
little brainwashed. But yeah,
3 minutes, 34 seconds
um yeah, I I I don't mind whatever would bring a little bit more light to this,
3 minutes, 41 seconds
particularly this the stuff uh if if we can get some of this stuff verified, you know, and I know that me speaking up is
3 minutes, 49 seconds
one thing, but then uh the verification process Yeah.
3 minutes, 53 seconds
Uh you know, is important, too. And I have read about software where you know facial recognition software that that [snorts]
4 minutes, 3 seconds
taps into the uh banks of of known uh cataloged child pornography. So if
4 minutes, 11 seconds
that the the films that they had me make can be verified, uh you know, it's not something that I can go online, but I am
4 minutes, 20 seconds
confident that it's there because somebody that I served within the army got put out of the army for child pornography in my chain of command talked to me and they said, "Hey, you
4 minutes, 28 seconds
know, some of these images, some of the films or whatever that he had looked just like you." And that was the first time I think I had ever talked to anybody about having done those films.
4 minutes, 38 seconds
And I told him, "Yes, when I was a child, I had to do those things." Yeah.
4 minutes, 42 seconds
So I Let's talk a little bit more about that circumstance. Like so you were in the army. What years were you in the army then?
4 minutes, 52 seconds
Um this would have been my second time in the army. I rejoined in uh let's see
4 minutes, 58 seconds
2002 and I retired in 2016. I was in uh from 91 to 98 as well. So I did a little
5 minutes, 6 seconds
over 21 years but the time frame that uh they pulled me into the office and discussed that would have been around uh 2008 2009 time frame.
5 minutes, 19 seconds
It was obviously it was in garrison so it was between deployments. Yeah.
5 minutes, 23 seconds
So around that time is when they talked to me and yeah I can just remember uh
5 minutes, 31 seconds
I can remember telling them that that I knew it was out there. there was nothing I could do about it. And
5 minutes, 38 seconds
thinking that there was really no way to go about, you know, anything at that
5 minutes, 46 seconds
point, you know, I I didn't know what I could do about it, if anything.
5 minutes, 50 seconds
Yeah. So, it was from when our our emails the um it was one of the fellow soldiers that was caught with a bunch of
5 minutes, 58 seconds
child pornography and then your commanding officer pulled you into the office to go through and said they see you in the films.
6 minutes, 9 seconds
I did not look at any of the films. All they said was,
6 minutes, 12 seconds
"Hey, we had to look at some of this stuff."
6 minutes, 15 seconds
And one of those people looks just like you. And that's the first time that I had, I think, ever really spoken about
6 minutes, 22 seconds
it. And I said, "Yes, you know, those are probably me." But I did not personally see them. Um, but
6 minutes, 31 seconds
they described uh something that I knew that I had been a part of.
6 minutes, 37 seconds
Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Here's what it was.
6 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah. Uh they when when I they pulled me in, I can remember first Art Bis was kind of redfaced and he said, "Have you ever made a movie with a black girl?"
6 minutes, 52 seconds
And I and you know that obviously was I mean I'm not a movie star so obviously that's a very odd question and I knew
7 minutes, 1 second
exactly what he was talking about when he said that. So I said yes. So he said, "Okay, well,
7 minutes, 9 seconds
we have found some images that are of a sexually explicit nature on another soldier's uh computer, I think. Um,
7 minutes, 20 seconds
and they look like you." And I said,
7 minutes, 22 seconds
"Well, they are me." So he said, "And you look underage." I think from that uh
7 minutes, 29 seconds
was part of their investigation to confirm that the images of the uh the participants in these films were underage.
7 minutes, 38 seconds
So,
7 minutes, 40 seconds
you know, that was just a a secondary verification that uh yeah, I was only 12 or 13 at the time of that film, maybe maybe even 11. So, I mean, obviously,
7 minutes, 50 seconds
I'm not an adult. And even when I was an adult at 18 or 19, I still looked young.
7 minutes, 56 seconds
So obviously at uh 11, 12, whatever I was in that film, I would not have
8 minutes, 3 seconds
looked like a a mature uh an adult, you know. Mhm.
8 minutes, 9 seconds
So it was more, I think, for confirmation that these images were of children. So, uh I don't remember if he
8 minutes, 18 seconds
actually got court marshaled or if he just got uh UCMJ, which is just their lower grade of uh punishment, but I do
8 minutes, 27 seconds
know that he was chaptered out of the military. I think he might have had to do a little jail time, but I
8 minutes, 35 seconds
don't I don't recall. I can't even recall the soldier's name that got caught with it. I just knew he was a an
8 minutes, 41 seconds
NCO, a staff sergeant. And was there any did anyone else ever talk to you about
8 minutes, 48 seconds
the the films again? Did they ever talk did they ever infer that there was any further investigation in terms to when
8 minutes, 57 seconds
the films were produced? Did they ask you anything about who is involved or did they No. No.
9 minutes, 4 seconds
Uh they they didn't they didn't go into any legality other than uh the prosecution of the soldier with the
9 minutes, 12 seconds
images. So in the military is a little bit different than than civilian uh you know I don't want to call it the court
9 minutes, 19 seconds
system because it's just the the the officers and NCOs's in the military but they they have their you know sphere of
9 minutes, 28 seconds
influence they have their little scope of operation and and if they uncover more I think that they're in uh required
9 minutes, 35 seconds
to give it to the civilian authorities but they don't have any jurisdiction to go further than to just prosecute the
9 minutes, 42 seconds
soldier for the infraction that he is guilty of. If that makes sense the way I'm saying it.
9 minutes, 48 seconds
No, I understand. Do they have any duty or any is there any legality or do they
9 minutes, 54 seconds
have legal requirements to in to inform civilian prosecutors of such cases?
10 minutes, 2 seconds
Yes. if if they suspect or I I if there's additional wrongdoing that is outside of
10 minutes, 10 seconds
their scope of of of being able to prosecute in in this case to to hold the individual soldier accountable for
10 minutes, 18 seconds
having this material that he's not supposed to have. Yeah.
10 minutes, 22 seconds
Uh [clears throat] they prosecute that portion of it. If it is beyond what they can prosecute, then they refer the soldier to civilian court systems. Um,
10 minutes, 33 seconds
but in this case, the military did uh handle the uh uh the prosecution of the
10 minutes, 41 seconds
soldier and I I think all he got was like 30 days uh and and reduction in rank to E1. They
10 minutes, 49 seconds
kicked him out of the army, gave him a less than honorable discharge. I think I don't think he even got a bad conduct for that. But, uh, it,
10 minutes, 59 seconds
you know, I know that he was put out of the military and I think he did the 30 days in jail, I think, is the most that
11 minutes, 7 seconds
they can give you at the uh um at that at the level that they that they prosecuted him at. So, um I don't I'm
11 minutes, 17 seconds
I'm not saying that they uh you know for sure on the on the jail time, but I do know for a fact he was he was put out of the military.
11 minutes, 24 seconds
Okay. So, they they they had films. They had some of those films.
11 minutes, 29 seconds
His name Cable.
11 minutes, 31 seconds
Yes. Hable. That was his last name. H A B E L I think. Staff Sergeant Hel. I just remembered it because I could
11 minutes, 38 seconds
picture his face and I just couldn't remember his name. Hable. Okay. H A B E L.
11 minutes, 46 seconds
Yes, I'm relatively certain on that name.
11 minutes, 50 seconds
I I don't have the best memory. I was in a blast in Iraq and one of the things that I struggle with mightily are names. Yeah.
11 minutes, 58 seconds
But I am I'm fairly sure that's his name. Okay.
12 minutes, 4 seconds
Okay. And in terms of the films they had, so so there there was obviously a collection of pornography. any is there
12 minutes, 12 seconds
anyone you're in contact with of those your commanding officers that would they talk to you? Would they provide evidence or is it a situation?
12 minutes, 23 seconds
Michael Michael Bis is the only one that I remember speaking to about it. I have not spoken to him since I left Fort Carson in 2011.
12 minutes, 35 seconds
Um,
12 minutes, 37 seconds
I would think that he would probably remember something like that just just the unusualness of it. You know, first
12 minutes, 44 seconds
sergeants deal with things day in and day out, but I would I would think that he would remember that just because of
12 minutes, 52 seconds
how it's not every day that you have to deal with something like that, you know. Um, yeah,
12 minutes, 59 seconds
but it it is possible. Uh, I think my commanding officer's name at that time was Captain Kasanto,
13 minutes, 9 seconds
but I'm not sure because you get commanding officers come and go. You know, the first uh they they tend to stick around longer,
13 minutes, 17 seconds
but commanding officers are a lot of times they're only there for a year or two and then they're off to the next thing. So, okay.
13 minutes, 24 seconds
Uh, my recollection of the commanding officer may not be accurate. What's the the spelling of his last name? Kasanto.
13 minutes, 32 seconds
Uh, Cola. C O L A S A N T O. Okay.
13 minutes, 40 seconds
St. Cola. Yeah.
13 minutes, 44 seconds
Okay. Is there anything else you think would be helpful to to talk about right now about then the time frame? That was the first time anyone had ever mentioned
13 minutes, 53 seconds
to you anything about the films other than when you were involved in filming. Is that accurate?
14 minutes, 1 second
Yes. Okay.
14 minutes, 2 seconds
Yes. The the first time that I can recall anybody that it ever coming up, I always knew that they were um you know
14 minutes, 12 seconds
that the films at at least one or two of them were out there. I don't even know how many times I was filmed. Um, but I
14 minutes, 21 seconds
can tell you that that some of them are are extraordinarily horrible. I can give you one instance where they were filming us.
14 minutes, 31 seconds
It was me and a girl that I knew uh that I had been trafficked with uh in other
14 minutes, 37 seconds
venues and while we were filming uh they came in and shot her in the head.
14 minutes, 44 seconds
So, killed her obviously. So that would be Was that the runaway?
14 minutes, 52 seconds
That was another girl that I can't even remember her name.
14 minutes, 55 seconds
Yeah. The the runaway was tortured to death in a duplex in uh Enterprise,
15 minutes
Alabama. My parents did that and we had that wasn't on film. uh that not her her
15 minutes, 7 seconds
being tortured, but uh that was uh that was that black girl that I'm telling you about that that later on uh
15 minutes, 16 seconds
Michael Bis had talked to me about, but they went and got her because they were afraid that
15 minutes, 24 seconds
that this was after the investigation in Tennessee and they were afraid that that they would go down for child pornography. So, they were
15 minutes, 33 seconds
wanting to kill her and then they were wanting to get rid of me via an accident, but they couldn't because
15 minutes, 40 seconds
they had already tried to kill me several times. They had the incident in Texas involving a Chevy van. There was
15 minutes, 47 seconds
another inc instance in Texas where my dad threw me into the middle of a pool and said sink or swim and somebody saw
15 minutes, 55 seconds
it and called the sheriff. So, there was a police report on that. And then there was a third instance in Texas where they uh my dad threw me down a flight of stairs and that one fractured my skull.
16 minutes, 7 seconds
Now there may have been other things that happened as well, but I remember those three were uh uh enough that they
16 minutes, 16 seconds
generated an investigation. Um, there were enough things that happened in Texas that, uh, my dad moved from Texas
16 minutes, 24 seconds
to Tennessee and then got in trouble in Tennessee and then moved then got in trouble in Tennessee and then moved to Alabama, got in trouble in Alabama and then we just moved one more time.
16 minutes, 34 seconds
And you're talking about your Alabama, your adoptive dad, William Kyle Riley, correct? Yes. Yes.
16 minutes, 40 seconds
I don't I have um I have located my birth parents. My birth mother lives in Sierra Vista and my birth father lives
16 minutes, 48 seconds
in Edmund, Oklahoma. But I have as yet I have not reached out to either of them.
16 minutes, 55 seconds
Um I just within the last year probably six months I learned where they live.
17 minutes, 3 seconds
So uh that I don't know that's just an odd dynamic for me and I'm still kind of
17 minutes, 10 seconds
processing that. Uh but as far as family goes, I have a halfsister up in uh uh Massachusetts and that's about it.
17 minutes, 19 seconds
Okay.
17 minutes, 21 seconds
And your adopted dad, William Kyle Riley, worked as a pilot and was involved Yes.
17 minutes, 27 seconds
into all kinds of things.
17 minutes, 31 seconds
Yeah. And worked a lot with Trump and Epstein. Correct.
17 minutes, 35 seconds
He I I know that he was around Epstein and worked with Epstein and I want to say
17 minutes, 43 seconds
that he flew for Epstein and if not for Epstein directly um like transporting Epstein himself, he
17 minutes, 53 seconds
did transport some of the rich people to and from uh these parties that Epstein and company hosted. It's it wasn't just
18 minutes, 1 second
him. It was kind of a cabal of several people and Epstein was the I guess the lead coordinator maybe you would call it
18 minutes, 10 seconds
but it it's much more than just him as an individual you know it was people like him like Trump uh other people
18 minutes, 19 seconds
um and I can't remember you know like how many but he was he he was handy to have around because
18 minutes, 28 seconds
he was a part of the process and he isn't just a uh like an airline pilot or something like that. He he can fly
18 minutes, 35 seconds
anything. He can fly helicopters, fixed wing, uh smaller aircraft, larger aircraft. I mean, he's he's a you know,
18 minutes, 45 seconds
he's that pilot that kind of that multi-purpose guy that could transport whatever you needed.
18 minutes, 53 seconds
Okay. So,
18 minutes, 54 seconds
and I don't Yeah,
18 minutes, 56 seconds
I don't know if he ever got into the drugs.
18 minutes, 59 seconds
I can remember him talking at one point and he had refused to do a drug run
19 minutes, 6 seconds
basically and somebody else took that drug run and they got busted. Yeah.
19 minutes, 12 seconds
So I don't I don't know what kind of aircraft it was or whatever and it was around Florida that that guy got busted at. Maybe you flew down uh to the Virgin
19 minutes, 20 seconds
Islands or something like that. I I can't remember these specific details,
19 minutes, 23 seconds
but I can remember the conversation that my dad had talking about, thank God I didn't take that and because the guy got
19 minutes, 32 seconds
busted and he wound up, you know, huge amount of charges, 25 to life or whatever the heck he got. But I can
19 minutes, 39 seconds
remember from his perspective being nervous because the people that he was working with, he was scared that they
19 minutes, 47 seconds
were going to set him up to take the fall for something to just get rid of him because he had been involved in so much other criminality that he was
19 minutes, 56 seconds
really nervous about taking on anything else.
20 minutes
I I know that's kind of word salad the way that I said it, but I think you kind of understand what I'm saying.
20 minutes, 8 seconds
I do. No, I understand. I understand perfectly. So your dad would obviously, you know, my
20 minutes, 16 seconds
understanding is your your dad was the kind of pilot that those sort of criminals would want to use cuz they could use him to fly any
20 minutes, 24 seconds
anything in any situation to airlift Trump out like you said when you almost killed Trump when Trump was assaulting you
20 minutes, 32 seconds
or the pilot in that one. He wasn't a pilot in that case.
20 minutes, 36 seconds
Kind of pilot. Absolutely. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, no, that's okay. So, yeah, I've got, you know,
20 minutes, 45 seconds
I've spoken to folks that, you know, they look for those sorts of pilots.
20 minutes, 49 seconds
They want pilots that can get guests of traffickers into situations,
20 minutes, 56 seconds
in and out discreetly, trafficking victims in and out of situations discreetly, and victims that they killed
21 minutes, 3 seconds
out of situations discreetly, all sorts of nonsense. So, seems like and and that's what that's what he did.
21 minutes, 10 seconds
He he shuttled the people. But I can remember him not wanting to to cross the bridge over to running drugs.
21 minutes, 19 seconds
Yeah.
21 minutes, 20 seconds
You know, because in his mind, if he got caught with some people, he could just play dumb. And I was just transporting this guy's kid to, you know, from the,
21 minutes, 29 seconds
you know, here to there. I I didn't know anything. So,
21 minutes, 34 seconds
So, did your dad I I Go ahead.
21 minutes, 37 seconds
I was Did your dad move transport the victims? Most often? Oh, absolutely.
21 minutes, 45 seconds
So, more victims than guests. I don't want to call them both.
21 minutes, 50 seconds
I would say more guests than than victims. Uh, but he definitely transported both. Okay.
21 minutes, 58 seconds
Okay. And that was either directly for Epstein like transport wasn't transporting Epstein so much as
22 minutes, 5 seconds
Epstein's victims and Epstein's gas and the clients.
22 minutes, 9 seconds
Okay. The clients but he was definitely around Epstein. I can I can remember the one time that I
22 minutes, 17 seconds
can remember meeting both of them and I I can't even remember Jeffrey hardly at all, but I can remember the
22 minutes, 24 seconds
conversation in the car where they they kept asking how to say uh Gain's name
22 minutes, 31 seconds
because it was unusual and uh during that meeting uh my mom wanted to get the
22 minutes, 37 seconds
name right, you know, for whatever that was important to her, you know. Yeah. And what's your mom's name again?
22 minutes, 46 seconds
Uh her name was Mary Lynn Riley. This would be kind of my third mom because my my dad adopted me with a uh a lady ma
22 minutes, 56 seconds
named uh Irene Ursula Lithky was her maiden name. Her name is Pier now.
23 minutes, 3 seconds
Um but those two adopted me. He got divorced from Irene inh 79 or 80 and almost immediately married Lynn. So, uh,
23 minutes, 14 seconds
Irene may have been involved in some of that, but that would be from a time frame that I don't have clear recollection of. I do have clear
23 minutes, 23 seconds
recollection of Mary Lynn Riley's involvement, uh, but she died via suicide a number of years ago.
23 minutes, 29 seconds
Uh, okay. Now, um,
23 minutes, 39 seconds
what are you most comfortable to talk about next? I mean, well, let me ask some more questions in terms of the
23 minutes, 46 seconds
Now, you you told me about Trump and about Bigs and about Jordan. I feel like that's important to discuss in details.
23 minutes, 54 seconds
And let me ask you a question. Do you think it's more helpful for you to talk about what you remember first when you were first trafficked, the circumstances,
24 minutes, 3 seconds
individuals involved, or do you want to talk about some of the incidents that that we spoke about a bit by email already?
24 minutes, 11 seconds
What's what do you think is helpful for you?
24 minutes, 15 seconds
Fill in whatever gaps in in that that I can. Um, I have spoken to you about most of what I remember clearly, but I can I
24 minutes, 24 seconds
can give you some of the details with those three and that's why that's why I I am willing to talk about them.
24 minutes, 34 seconds
You know, there's no um I I remember more things, but I just can't I can't I can't give you much in the way of detail
24 minutes, 43 seconds
for anybody other than those three. I can remember Jim Jordan. I went to a party. This was at a farm. There were uh
24 minutes, 51 seconds
I don't know 25 to 50 people there. I mean, it was it was a good amount of people, but not a a massive crowd by any
24 minutes, 58 seconds
stretch. But what my the experience that my dad sold to those people was if you
25 minutes, 6 seconds
could pin me, then you could do whatever you wanted. But my dad had taught me how to fight. He had been a like a bare
25 minutes, 13 seconds
knuckle brawler earlier in his uh life and uh I know that he had worked kind of
25 minutes, 21 seconds
just beating people up for you know a little extra money at one point in his life. Uh he he also entered into like the tough man contest stuff like that.
25 minutes, 33 seconds
So it it was kind of a game for them because I was just a child. So, you would think that you could just uh, you
25 minutes, 41 seconds
know, do whatever you wanted, but if they got anywhere near me, I would hit them. And by the time that Jim Jordan
25 minutes, 47 seconds
assaulted me, I was old enough that those adults, not being most of them, not being athletic in any way. You know,
25 minutes, 54 seconds
these are these are people that, you know, they're not fighters by any stretch.
25 minutes, 59 seconds
Uh, they they couldn't get anywhere near me. And Jim Jordan just sort of rushed me and tackled me. and I might have
26 minutes, 7 seconds
known how to fight, but I didn't know how to wrestle. So, he assaulted me in front of a crowd. And I I think that it was filmed, but I can't swear that it
26 minutes, 15 seconds
was filmed, but it was in front of those 25 or 50 people. Um, and how old were you?
26 minutes, 20 seconds
That's why I remembered I was around 12.
26 minutes, 27 seconds
12 when that happened. And of those 25, 50 people, oh, sorry. Go ahead.
26 minutes, 33 seconds
The reason that I remember Jim Jordan is first he stood out because he wasn't that much. He's he's only like seven or eight years older than me. So at the
26 minutes, 42 seconds
time frame that I'm I'm at 12. He is right around just graduating high school, maybe maybe first year or two of
26 minutes, 49 seconds
college, right? So him being so much younger stood out. And then I remembered
26 minutes, 55 seconds
his jawline. He has a very uh very pronounced jawline. I remembered his voice and he his mannerisms haven't
27 minutes, 4 seconds
changed throughout his life either. So when I really started uh as soon as Trump went down that escalator and said he was running for
27 minutes, 13 seconds
president, I I I got involved in politics, you know, I started I started watching it. Uh I started watching who supported him and everything like that.
27 minutes, 21 seconds
And I remember Jim Jordan just from watching him on the uh uh floor of Congress, you know, speaking to the
27 minutes, 30 seconds
different people that, you know, go go up there and testify. So,
27 minutes, 36 seconds
uh and that's him, you know, I I just remembered him. So yeah,
27 minutes, 42 seconds
that's I know that's not a lot, but
27 minutes, 46 seconds
[laughter]
27 minutes, 46 seconds
I you give me a polygraph, I'm going to take it because I'm 100% sure that that it was him.
27 minutes, 53 seconds
And Andy Biggs, I remember because on the way to this, they took me to a a
28 minutes, 1 second
house. This wasn't at a party. This was later after I had assaulted Trump. And it was kind of a punishment type of
28 minutes, 10 seconds
thing where he was going to get to assault me and I guess not pay my parents and he got to do whatever he
28 minutes, 16 seconds
wanted. And I can remember telling me they I wasn't allowed to fight back or they'd kill me and you know all of this.
28 minutes, 24 seconds
But they they must have said his name 50 times in the car. So Bigs kept I kept
28 minutes, 31 seconds
hearing Bigs, Andy Biggs, Biggs. And I I thought I'm going to remember this man.
28 minutes, 36 seconds
And after he assaulted me, I don't even remember the the assault necessarily,
28 minutes, 41 seconds
but I remember being in the car afterwards and being like really nauseous, sick to my stomach. I was
28 minutes, 49 seconds
seeing spots and I mean uh the guy beat me until I I had broken ribs and and was
28 minutes, 56 seconds
convulsing, turning blue and stuff like that. And I can the only part of that assault that I can remember is laying on
29 minutes, 4 seconds
the uh floor of of the room trying to breathe. And I could I could hear Andy
29 minutes, 11 seconds
and my dad screaming back and forth at each other. And I can remember Andy Biggs saying, "You said I could do whatever I wanted." And my dad saying,
29 minutes, 21 seconds
"I didn't say you could [ __ ] kill him." And you know, I think they may have actually thrown blows over it, but
29 minutes, 29 seconds
there was a heated argument and everything going on for for an extended period of time. And then I can remember being in the car leaving and just having
29 minutes, 38 seconds
my eyes closed because my head was spinning and everything and I was just trying to breathe just in and out, you know? So that's why I remember him so clearly.
29 minutes, 46 seconds
Uh, I have had more than one encounter with Trump and that's why I tried to kill that son of a [ __ ] because he is a [ __ ] monster. It's why I have not
29 minutes, 56 seconds
shut up about just how absolutely abhorentt he is as a human being. And it's why I tried to That's why I tried to kill him.
30 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah.
30 minutes, 5 seconds
Because I had decided I had already seen enough other people die that in my mind I thought uh well, they're just going to kill me too at some point, right?
30 minutes, 17 seconds
uh you know, I'm not going to survive to be an adult from this. So, in my mind,
30 minutes, 22 seconds
he was the biggest pile of [ __ ] that I had ever had to have any contact with.
30 minutes, 26 seconds
So, I was going to take him with me. And how often did Trump assault you?
30 minutes, 34 seconds
I can remember I can remember two specifically a third one that I think and I think I was
30 minutes, 43 seconds
around him more than those just those three times but only three times do do I kind of remember I can remember at one
30 minutes, 52 seconds
point him asking uh the people that were kind of running that party or or whatever it was at that farm um he
31 minutes
wanted to kill somebody he wanted to maybe he wanted to murder somebody and they said, "Hey, that's not this kind of
31 minutes, 6 seconds
party. You can't do that." And uh they in in lie of doing that, they said,
31 minutes, 13 seconds
"Well, we've got some some puppies if you just want to kill something, but we've got to get rid of them anyway."
31 minutes, 19 seconds
So, I can remember him taking those puppies one by one. And like he snapped one of the puppies necks, he cut one
31 minutes, 27 seconds
open and let it just howl and and and you know, rise in pain while they died.
31 minutes, 32 seconds
held one under some water to kill it. He just he he wanted to hurt kill those
31 minutes, 40 seconds
puppies in in you know whatever gruesome way you know to to experience I guess seeing them suffer in different ways.
31 minutes, 48 seconds
What his kink is I guess if you want to call it that is watching people suffer.
31 minutes, 55 seconds
He likes to destroy people physically,
31 minutes, 59 seconds
mentally during the process of the assault.
32 minutes, 4 seconds
That's why he stands out so much in my memory,
32 minutes, 8 seconds
you know, and it's it's it's physical pain and then it's it's also, you know,
32 minutes, 14 seconds
degrading and and and all of that. But his thing was to just try to destroy human beings to the to the utmost that
32 minutes, 22 seconds
he could possibly do it, which is why I attacked him. Yeah, that's understandable.
32 minutes, 30 seconds
So, um I can tell you this, the the last one and and
32 minutes, 38 seconds
Okay, so this was after they had killed the uh Samantha. was the black girl that I made the the the one of the movies with.
32 minutes, 48 seconds
Yeah.
32 minutes, 49 seconds
Um and these were Let me just ask a question just to clarify.
32 minutes, 53 seconds
So when Samantha was killed, these were were all of these parties at the farm or similar locations to the farm where there was um it was multiple farms.
33 minutes, 4 seconds
Multiple farms.
33 minutes, 5 seconds
And usually it was parties. So there was individuals like Trump that were flown in to the parties
33 minutes, 12 seconds
and they would have like a building, you know, a house uh and they would usually
33 minutes, 19 seconds
have like a tent set up and uh you know it was almost like a little I don't want
33 minutes, 26 seconds
to say a fair. It wasn't that big. They didn't have rides or anything, but there was it was a kind of a coordinated deal,
33 minutes, 33 seconds
you know.
33 minutes, 35 seconds
Um, sometimes they would have the uh the bare knuckle fighting. That's that probably is how my my dad got involved with these people because uh you know,
33 minutes, 44 seconds
you've got boxing and stuff like that on TV, but that's really all you had back in the 70s and 80s. The the you know,
33 minutes, 51 seconds
the more the MMA type of stuff wasn't allowed. And these fights were a little more gruesome. They didn't they didn't fight to the death or anything like that, but they were they were bloody.
34 minutes, 2 seconds
And you know, I mean, these were these were fights, you know, and not just boxing. And so the the uh rich people
34 minutes, 10 seconds
would pay to see that. Sometimes they'd have like a, you know, a band playing uh you know, just like what you would
34 minutes, 17 seconds
expect at like a fair or something, you know.
34 minutes, 19 seconds
So the rich folks would get flown in associated with Epstein and they would pay to watch the victims fight. The v
34 minutes, 28 seconds
victims were all underage. And would they pay to then assault the victims after the fights or during the fights?
34 minutes, 36 seconds
And they'd pay to torture the victims and rape the victims and kill the victims.
34 minutes, 41 seconds
Uh but now now some of the fights were adults,
34 minutes, 44 seconds
you know, so you know, if they had some big old country boy and some other guy,
34 minutes, 48 seconds
they they would pay to see that. They would also pay to watch the kids fight.
34 minutes, 53 seconds
And they did pay to watch me fight. I would fight other kids. And my dad was was my initial trainer
35 minutes, 1 second
uh for me to learn how to fight. I would later uh go on to be a a boxer, an
35 minutes, 8 seconds
amateur boxer, but that's how I got my start in all of that. So, yes, they would have paid for that. Um and the experiences were different uh each time.
35 minutes, 20 seconds
There wasn't like a set thing. You never really knew what was going to happen.
35 minutes, 24 seconds
So, um, you know, part of it, a lot of it just comes down to money, you know.
35 minutes, 29 seconds
So, if they offered, uh, $5,000 to have sex with me, then then, you know,
35 minutes, 38 seconds
my dad was willing to do that, you know,
35 minutes, 41 seconds
whatever the dollar amounts were. I don't I don't know.
35 minutes, 43 seconds
Sasha, that isn't that isn't sex. That that's that's sexual assault, right?
35 minutes, 50 seconds
I mean, I I just want to say something first. I think, okay, you're extremely brave.
35 minutes, 58 seconds
You behave extremely strong like a warrior. And I just want to stop and say it's important to me to say that because
36 minutes, 6 seconds
a lot of folks you know wouldn't even survive such trauma but you've you've survived and you you know you conduct
36 minutes, 13 seconds
yourself with with dignity and and and gracefully and and I is important to me to say that. I I hope you know that, you
36 minutes, 21 seconds
know, I hope you have a sense of your your own honor and chivalousness,
36 minutes, 27 seconds
especially what you told me in terms of drugs they used on you and how they lured you drug to to to behave monstrous
36 minutes, 35 seconds
towards other kids. You know, I understand I can remember I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt, but I can remember
36 minutes, 44 seconds
uh some law some arm of law enforcement showing me video of me harming one of the people that they were filming me
36 minutes, 53 seconds
with. Now, I don't know how that came about. Um whether they they drugged me and I lost
37 minutes, 1 second
my mind or they told me to do it. I don't I don't know the circumstances,
37 minutes, 6 seconds
but I can remember being in that room and them saying, "Well, you did this."
37 minutes, 11 seconds
And and it may have not even been law enforcement. It may have been, you know, like the people that were running that,
37 minutes, 16 seconds
but I can remember being really upset because I had no recollection of having done that. It was me in the video and I was beating somebody, well, a girl senseless.
37 minutes, 27 seconds
And uh I didn't kill her or anything like that, but I you know Yeah.
37 minutes, 34 seconds
So, and I have a feeling, you know, this this part I can't prove because I I you know, I I have I only have my own
37 minutes, 42 seconds
experiences. But what the whole thing seems to be is that they first abuse you, then they get you on film abusing
37 minutes, 52 seconds
others, and now they have you trapped as well.
37 minutes, 55 seconds
Yeah. So, you can't talk about the abuse that they did to you. If they want you to be a legacy victim, somebody that they can use in the future, well, then
38 minutes, 4 seconds
they've got to get you on tape doing monstrous things to other people as well because now they have the leverage to keep your mouth shut.
38 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah. No, and you know what? You're exactly right. That's exactly the tactic. And it's it's in the tactic is
38 minutes, 18 seconds
insidious because um have have you ever heard of the the the
38 minutes, 25 seconds
torture technique a lot of um occult practitioners use? It's called uh inversion inversion torture. Inversion
38 minutes, 34 seconds
magic isn't magic. Sorcery is just smok and mirrors, nonsense, deception techniques, but it's sort of inversion
38 minutes, 41 seconds
technique where to try to linguistically manipulate the victims to try to get the victims in a position where the victims doubt whether the victims,
38 minutes, 52 seconds
you know, good or not. That's absolutely And I think that's the case with a lot of the Republicans you mentioned. Like you said, Clarence Thomas and Lindsey
39 minutes
Graham were at these parties. You can't remember if Lindsey Graeme and Clarence Thomas participated and it's sort of a question of did they
39 minutes, 8 seconds
participate? Were they blackmailed because they were there attended the parties but they didn't participate?
39 minutes, 13 seconds
Can you tell me much more about Clarence Thomas and Lindsey Graham?
39 minutes, 17 seconds
I know the least about him. The only reason that I can remember him is because he was a black man and the I'm
39 minutes, 26 seconds
I'm sorry but that that that club is is pretty much just white folks. So having a black person there uh was very
39 minutes, 35 seconds
unusual. So he stood out. But the only thing that I can really say is that I remembered him being there and then I
39 minutes, 43 seconds
remember what a big deal it was in our household when he got confirmed onto the Supreme Court.
39 minutes, 51 seconds
Yeah.
39 minutes, 51 seconds
Uh because my dad was excited about that because of how high up he was. Now, I don't I can't swear. I may have been
40 minutes
assaulted by Clarence Thomas, but I cannot swear to that.
40 minutes, 4 seconds
If he did assault me, then it was not to the level of something that scared me to the point where I needed to
40 minutes, 13 seconds
remember it, if that's a good way to put that, which rose to that, and Andy Biggs rose to that. And Jim Jordan rose to
40 minutes, 21 seconds
that because he was dangerous to me because I could keep most people away from me with my fists. But, you know, he
40 minutes, 29 seconds
he was a good wrestler. So, you know, he scared me in that sense that this is a person that I can't, you know, that I
40 minutes, 38 seconds
can't keep away from me with my with my fist. Um, Lindsey Graham, I am fairly sure he has assaulted me, but I just
40 minutes, 47 seconds
can't put my hand on a Bible and swear to that. Yeah.
40 minutes, 50 seconds
You know, I know that he was there. I can remember it. He he just like uh Jim Jordan, he has uh very distinct
40 minutes, 58 seconds
mannerisms and his voice is a little unusual as well. So, I could remember his voice, I could remember his mannerisms and then obviously how he looks. Um,
41 minutes, 8 seconds
so I can put him there, but I just can't I can't say he did this or he did that. Exactly. I just can't.
41 minutes, 17 seconds
Okay. So,
41 minutes, 19 seconds
I wish that I could provide more information on that because I I I think some things went on, but that's just not
41 minutes, 26 seconds
enough for me to point uh a finger and make an accusation. But he was there. I can tell you that. Yeah. Well, that's that's that's enough.
41 minutes, 34 seconds
And I know that you know some sorts of interviews there's we can look at at a different time to see if there is any
41 minutes, 41 seconds
more information you remember. But what you do remember I I just want you to know what you remember to know that what what you remember is extremely important
41 minutes, 49 seconds
and is extremely helpful. I know you want to be able to remember more and the memories are in there and you know I I
41 minutes, 57 seconds
just want to approach the situation delicately because you know some of the other memories are are are
42 minutes, 6 seconds
just vague. you know, I can and and and I I have been very careful too not to to to to reach out further because there
42 minutes, 16 seconds
are some other names that I could I could mention that I believe were there that I know for a fact that that my parents talked about, but
42 minutes, 26 seconds
I don't have a clear enough recollection of anything. Like I can tell you 100%
42 minutes, 31 seconds
sure that they talked about Vladimir Putin, but I do not believe he was ever at one of those parties that I was at,
42 minutes, 38 seconds
but his name was brought up more than once during the 1980s. Yes.
42 minutes, 46 seconds
Okay.
42 minutes, 47 seconds
Vladimir Putin. I don't I don't know even when he ascended to the presidency,
42 minutes, 51 seconds
but I remember the name because it was so unusual. Now, at that point, he may have just been, you know, one of the Russian oligarchs or whatever, but his
43 minutes
name came up and and I remember just because it's an unusual name, Vladimir Putin, you know. Um, but I don't believe
43 minutes, 8 seconds
he was ever there. So, that is like I don't know. It's there are other names like that, too.
43 minutes, 16 seconds
Okay. Let's talk a little bit about I remember Clinton's name being brought up, but I don't ever remember seeing it.
43 minutes, 22 seconds
So Clinton was mentioned, but you never saw Clinton. I not that I can recall.
43 minutes, 29 seconds
And and that's another thing, too. I may have had interactions with additional people, but some during some of them, I
43 minutes, 38 seconds
was so drugged out of my mind. I I don't really remember what happened, you know.
43 minutes, 43 seconds
Yeah. When when you heard them talk about Putin, so it was at one of the parties of one of the farms. Do you remember what they were saying about Putin?
43 minutes, 53 seconds
Just that he was some sort of like uh foreigner that was very important. I I
44 minutes, 1 second
you know I didn't know any more you know the the name was just unusual and
44 minutes, 9 seconds
they they mentioned his name you know they they kind of uh had fun saying his
44 minutes, 15 seconds
name you know Vladimir, you know does he like to go by Vlad or this or that. But
44 minutes, 22 seconds
the the meeting with that person I don't think ever materialized. I think it was just something that was discussed and
44 minutes, 30 seconds
never happened. Now, if he has other connections, you know, and he he very well may uh that's possible, but I can
44 minutes, 39 seconds
just remember there were at those parties there were people that had strange accents.
44 minutes, 47 seconds
Um, but that's that's it. That's that's all I could say. I couldn't point and say, "Well, this person was from Spain
44 minutes, 54 seconds
or this person was from Portugal." I I have no idea, but what I do know for a fact is not every person at those parties was American.
45 minutes, 5 seconds
Yeah,
45 minutes, 7 seconds
I know that's not a lot, but I again I I I only remember what I I have a question
45 minutes, 14 seconds
with with Trump, I mean with Putin, did you get the sense that the party attendees that the clients were interested in Putin? There was something
45 minutes, 22 seconds
they wanted from Putin. They thought they could get money from Putin,
45 minutes, 27 seconds
influence from Putin. Did you have any sense of that?
45 minutes, 31 seconds
The only sense that I had was that this was for uh the rich people regardless of where they were from.
45 minutes, 41 seconds
So, at this point in my child brain, I knew that there were rich people and those people got to do whatever they
45 minutes, 48 seconds
wanted. And then there were poor people like me and those people, you know, that was the dynamic. So,
45 minutes, 57 seconds
you know, that's that's that's it. I I never heard them say anything about blackmailing and stuff like that, but I
46 minutes, 6 seconds
can remember them showing me a video of me doing bad stuff. And then I can remember people telling me that if I
46 minutes, 13 seconds
ever talked about it, what I had done was illegal, too. I uh and and a lot of that was just [ __ ] because I was just a kid and they were making me do this stuff.
46 minutes, 23 seconds
Yeah.
46 minutes, 23 seconds
But talk about malevolent hypocrisy, dude. They were just utterly grotesque.
46 minutes, 31 seconds
They they were trafficking you. They were assaulting you. They were drugging you. And then they were trying to to to they they were trying to make me
46 minutes, 39 seconds
feel torture you. Exactly. Exactly. when they you were in this situation because they were trafficking you.
46 minutes, 48 seconds
The the last encounter with Trump, the one where I injured him was the one that I remember the most vividly. And this
46 minutes, 57 seconds
was the setup for that. I can remember my dad before we went to the farm. This was when we lived in Enterprise,
47 minutes, 5 seconds
Alabama. Yeah. So, it would have been about 81 to 82,
47 minutes, 9 seconds
somewhere in there. maybe as maybe as late as 83,
47 minutes, 14 seconds
but he said there may be somebody that you know there and and I can remember the look on his face and it scared the [ __ ] out of me.
47 minutes, 22 seconds
But anyway, when I got to the farm, of course, I'm scared at the farm because I don't know what's going to happen. But
47 minutes, 31 seconds
the first person that comes up to me is a girl named Patricia. This is a girl that I had been trafficked with before.
47 minutes, 37 seconds
and she came running up to me and, you know, said said hello or whatever. Uh,
47 minutes, 42 seconds
she was about my same age, around 12 or 13. And I can remember my dad saying,
47 minutes, 48 seconds
"Well, why don't you guys go run off and and or whatever and and have fun."
47 minutes, 54 seconds
And I I can I can remember not knowing what to do in that instance because, you know, these parties weren't for me. I
48 minutes, 2 seconds
wasn't. And then then then he said something to the effect of, "No, it's not like that for you anymore. You're a
48 minutes, 10 seconds
man now. You can just go out and have fun." Well, we went to go have sex. So,
48 minutes, 16 seconds
uh, we went and found a room and started having sex. And while we were having
48 minutes, 23 seconds
sex, people burst into the room. It would have been four, five, six guys, big guys, adults. Uh,
48 minutes, 31 seconds
at least one of them had a gun. I think I think two or three of them had guns, but they came in, they assaulted her,
48 minutes, 39 seconds
they beat on her, and then they shot her while she was still in the bed. They didn't beat or assault me, but what they
48 minutes, 47 seconds
said was, "If you don't do everything that the next person coming in here wants,
48 minutes, 53 seconds
we're going to shoot you just like we did her." And I can remember them having like an argument because they shot her in the bed and then they had to go find
49 minutes
another mattress. Well, that's when Trump came in. So that's why I remember
49 minutes, 7 seconds
him so vividly. And it was at that point I had already decided they're probably just going to kill me anyway. I'm going to take him with me. And I tried but I
49 minutes, 17 seconds
did not. How did how did you So obviously Trump was extremely violent. Trump's um Yes.
49 minutes, 27 seconds
a sadistic psychopath when Trump assaulted you. So sexual assault and physical assault.
49 minutes, 36 seconds
Yes. So at one point,
49 minutes, 41 seconds
well, I kind of acquiesced to whatever sexual things that he wanted to do, but
49 minutes, 48 seconds
at some point uh he wanted me to have sex with him. So he laid down on his stomach and there
49 minutes, 57 seconds
was a uh wooden tent steak that was in the room and I had been eyeballing it as
50 minutes, 4 seconds
a weapon. And what I did was put the condom on the wooden thin steak, put it
50 minutes, 10 seconds
inside of him, and I kicked it as hard as I could. And that's why he had to get lifellighted out because I ripped him open. [laughter]
50 minutes, 19 seconds
I'm sorry.
50 minutes, 21 seconds
Do you ever watch the movie The Equalizer?
50 minutes, 25 seconds
No, I haven't seen it. Denzel Washington, you know, sort of like justice when everyone in involved in
50 minutes, 32 seconds
American law enforcement can't get any justice. Um, that would be a sort of situation obviously.
50 minutes, 41 seconds
Um, I laughed because there's poetic justice there,
50 minutes, 46 seconds
Sasha. that that that was what facilitated they not only did I
50 minutes, 52 seconds
get really assaulted by uh Andy Biggs, I also got assaulted by like an entire
50 minutes, 59 seconds
party's worth of people. They took after Trump was airlifted out.
51 minutes, 5 seconds
He had a whole another party. So they took me to another party after that. And because I had done that to one of those
51 minutes, 11 seconds
rich people, um I they took me from like station to station and they could do whatever they wanted. Most of them just
51 minutes, 19 seconds
beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat
51 minutes, 20 seconds
beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat
51 minutes, 20 seconds
beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat
51 minutes, 27 seconds
and I can remember somebody urinated on me and I said thank you for not hurting me and he just hauled off and punched me
51 minutes, 35 seconds
in the side of the head and knocked me out. Um,
51 minutes, 40 seconds
I can remember leaving that party and my dad was just kind of dragging me out of there.
51 minutes, 48 seconds
It was another instance just like with Andy Biggs where I got beaten to the point where, you know, I was I was the room was spinning. I was nauseous,
51 minutes, 57 seconds
probably throwing up. Um, maybe some broken bones uh badly.
52 minutes, 4 seconds
And how many perpetrators did you say again? 20 to 40 25 to 40 perpetrators
52 minutes, 12 seconds
people that were there. Yes. I would say probably eight or 10 that just beat the absolute hell out of me. And some of them probably sexually assaulted me, but
52 minutes, 21 seconds
I can't remember. I can remember getting hurt, you know, just getting beaten up and uh you know,
52 minutes, 30 seconds
was that before you tried to defend yourself from Trump or after? Do you remember? That was after that was as a punishment,
52 minutes, 38 seconds
if you want to call it that. The what happened at that party was part of the punishment. And then I can remember them
52 minutes, 45 seconds
saying that this is the last of it when I had to go see Andy Biggs. But Andy Biggs almost [ __ ] killed me.
52 minutes, 52 seconds
So I remember him to this day. I just So when Andy Biggs almost killed you was after Trump as well?
53 minutes, 2 seconds
Yes. Uh after Andy Biggs was after Trump, the party that a whole bunch of people assaulted me was after that. And
53 minutes, 9 seconds
then the last one was Andy Biggs. And then I can remember my dad saying no more. Uh I can remember him even kind of
53 minutes, 18 seconds
breaking down a little bit like psychologically because of just I guess the repeated watching me
53 minutes, 25 seconds
just get destroyed by people. You got to understand it's not like boooos and band-aids. They were breaking ribs and
53 minutes, 32 seconds
uh really hurting me. You know, I've got like a deformed rib cage to this day.
53 minutes, 37 seconds
No. Sounds like they were trying to torch you just to the point of death to to punish you and to send a message.
53 minutes, 45 seconds
They tried over and over again to hint to me to get me to kill myself.
53 minutes, 51 seconds
And I can remember thinking there's no way I'm going to kill myself because that's what they want.
53 minutes, 57 seconds
So just I I survived some of that just out of spite to be honest with you. Uh there's there's really no other way to
54 minutes, 4 seconds
put it, but I wasn't going to I just I can remember hating my mom so much that there I just did not want to give her the satisfaction.
54 minutes, 13 seconds
Yeah. She as bad as my dad was, Marilyn Riley was even more evil.
54 minutes, 20 seconds
[clears throat]
54 minutes, 21 seconds
She her thing was sexually torturing me.
54 minutes, 25 seconds
So, and and she enjoyed sexually torturing Samantha when they went and got her.
54 minutes, 32 seconds
And Samantha was the runaway that Ry she was
54 minutes, 39 seconds
she lived in a uh a brothel basically a house where they had uh four or five
54 minutes, 47 seconds
underage girls that had they had scooped up from wherever they got them from. and uh they would use those girls at these
54 minutes, 55 seconds
parties. Well, at one time they sent me to go be a part of that raffle. So,
55 minutes, 1 second
that's when I made friends with Samantha, Patricia, and Sarah. And those are the only three that I can remember their names, but Sarah um committed suicide. Samantha was tortured to death.
55 minutes, 11 seconds
And Patricia was the girl that got shot in the bed before Trump came in. Did Patricia die?
55 minutes, 19 seconds
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes. So Samantha, Patricia, and Sarah, and all three died.
55 minutes, 27 seconds
Yes. Yes.
55 minutes, 29 seconds
So Samantha was the runaway that was murdered by your adopted parents. Yes.
55 minutes, 36 seconds
Patricia committed suicide. Sarah committed suicide. And Patricia was murdered in the bed before Trump came
55 minutes, 44 seconds
in. And then they threatened Yes. on you and said to let Trump do whatever Trump wanted to do to you or they would shoot you in the head as well.
55 minutes, 52 seconds
Yes. Yes. Okay.
55 minutes, 58 seconds
And I can remember I can remember them pointing the gun at me and saying, "We're going to kill you."
56 minutes, 6 seconds
And my dad protesting because he said,
56 minutes, 9 seconds
"If you shoot him, we're all going to go to jail." and he was he was really I can remember him be being distraught. Now he
56 minutes, 18 seconds
was he's a kind of a tough guy and you know all of that sort of stuff. So that's what stood out to me was he was
56 minutes, 25 seconds
really scared because he knew that if they just shot me that's not something he could explain to anybody and he had
56 minutes, 33 seconds
gotten into so much trouble with trying to get rid of me already. with uh there's the the Chevy van incident,
56 minutes, 41 seconds
there's the pool incident, and then there's the uh uh stairs incident, and all of those generated a a police
56 minutes, 48 seconds
report. In addition to that, we went down to Panama City, Florida to the beach, either Panama City or Dest. And
56 minutes, 57 seconds
they took me to a rip tide area. Uh I didn't know it was a riptide area. There were no other people on the beach, you know, it was just us. But within like a
57 minutes, 5 seconds
100 yards, 150 yards, there's the regular beach where people were at. Uh you know how they have the the riptide zones? They don't want you out there,
57 minutes, 14 seconds
right? For obvious reasons. Well, they took me to one of these zones and had me, you know, say, "Hey, you know, come out here and play in the water and this
57 minutes, 22 seconds
and that." And for the first few minutes, it was just the three of us playing in the water and I'm just a kid.
57 minutes, 26 seconds
You know, beach is awesome. So, uh at any rate, they go back in. I'm out there playing. Eventually that that
57 minutes, 34 seconds
current gets me and I don't know how to swim at this point in my life. So it pulls me out
57 minutes, 41 seconds
100 ft maybe and I'm bouncing up and down off the sandbar just screaming my head off. Well, somebody that was on the regular beach, not in the Riptide area,
57 minutes, 50 seconds
heard the screaming and came running from like 150 yards away and right by my
57 minutes, 58 seconds
parents who were standing there and he goes out there and gets me, fishes me out. by the time he comes back, he's nearly exhausted. And I can remember him
58 minutes, 7 seconds
and my dad nearly fighting. And at this point, there there are other people that are coming. And you know, that scares
58 minutes, 15 seconds
the [ __ ] out of my dad. But there was another police report with that. And I know that that police report followed us back up into Alabama because the sheriff
58 minutes, 24 seconds
came down there and talked to him uh talked to my dad in Alabama. So there was another investigation for sure. So,
58 minutes, 32 seconds
all of those things had already happened and my dad was terrified that if something happened to me, especially so
58 minutes, 40 seconds
close to all of these other things that that all of these other investigations,
58 minutes, 46 seconds
he pretty much knew he was going to go to jail over it.
58 minutes, 48 seconds
So, there was at least the the the Chevy van incident, pool incident, stairs incident, there was police into police reports. How many police were reports?
58 minutes, 58 seconds
About three or four.
59 minutes, 1 second
that I can I I that that are just involved in trying to get rid of me and then there were in addition to those four. There were the two investigations,
59 minutes, 10 seconds
one for the porn and then when we lived in the duplex and they were torturing that girl to death, Samantha, um our duplex neighbors there in Enterprise,
59 minutes, 20 seconds
Alabama, they called the police because they could hear uh you know, screams and and uh you know, beatings and stuff like
59 minutes, 29 seconds
that. And when they investigated, I can remember my dad saying, "Hey, you know,
59 minutes, 34 seconds
he talking about me as just uh uh you know, I had gotten in trouble and got a
59 minutes, 41 seconds
whipping or something." And they did an investigation. They they like uh they collected blood samples and everything
59 minutes, 50 seconds
from the house, but the problem was they couldn't determine how long that blood had been there, I guess. and they didn't
59 minutes, 57 seconds
it wasn't a match to anybody in the house. So,
1 hour, 3 seconds
for whatever reason, they just didn't have enough. And I I don't think they were allowed to talk to me. I think my dad would have had to have given them
1 hour, 11 seconds
permission for the investigators to interrogate me.
1 hour, 16 seconds
So, I don't recall ever giving testimony as a child.
1 hour, 22 seconds
police in that instance or in the instance up in uh Tennessee.
1 hour, 27 seconds
Did you provide any testimony to the police in any of those five cases? Well,
1 hour, 32 seconds
the one case with the military with a child pornography. you you the the the the I can remember the
1 hour, 40 seconds
sheriff talking to me at the uh at the beach in Panama City and
1 hour, 50 seconds
I don't remember what all was was said but I can remember my dad tried to get out of there and the guy that went and fished me out my dad's a pretty big guy
1 hour, 58 seconds
and he's he can fight but the guy that went and got me was like a I mean he was a tank so it wasn't something that he
1 hour, 1 minute, 5 seconds
wanted to really get into a fight about over there and the, you know, people started coming in. So they, my parents,
1 hour, 1 minute, 14 seconds
I can remember them trying to hug me and stuff. Oh my god, thank God. I can remember the guy that fished me out,
1 hour, 1 minute, 19 seconds
they said, there's no goddamn way. I heard that from 150 yards away and you're standing there watching him and
1 hour, 1 minute, 26 seconds
you didn't hear it, you know, and you know, they tried to play it off like, well, we just thought he was playing,
1 hour, 1 minute, 34 seconds
you know, swimming and stuff like that. And I can remember the sheriff asking, "Do you know how to swim?" And I said, "No, sir." And they were like, "Okay,
1 hour, 1 minute, 41 seconds
this this [ __ ] sucks." You know, there's no way that this is legitimate.
1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds
And I can remember the sheriff in Alabama talking to my dad and saying,
1 hour, 1 minute, 53 seconds
"There better not be anything that happens to him." He said, "Because I'm just going to go ahead and tell you,
1 hour, 1 minute, 58 seconds
you're going to go to jail. I don't care." He said, "I'll make sure of it."
1 hour, 2 minutes, 2 seconds
So they they had a sense, but they didn't know they didn't have enough of what they thought of as evidence to do anything. Exactly. Right.
1 hour, 2 minutes, 10 seconds
And that was the case with Samantha as well. Yes.
1 hour, 2 minutes, 14 seconds
And and your dad wouldn't let them talk to you. What's that?
1 hour, 2 minutes, 19 seconds
And your dad wouldn't let the the police officers talk to you.
1 hour, 2 minutes, 23 seconds
So Right. That also seems weird. That he he did. Huh.
1 hour, 2 minutes, 28 seconds
It seems weird. I I mean I know in Canada is a bit different like in terms of
1 hour, 2 minutes, 40 seconds
you know there would have been folks from child protection services there and they would have gotten you away from your adopted fathers to talk to you to talk to you.
1 hour, 2 minutes, 48 seconds
You wouldn't have gone through that sort of horror in Canada. I'm well I'm really sad at one point occurred
1 hour, 2 minutes, 56 seconds
at at one point CPS did take me so I got into the foster care system and the
1 hour, 3 minutes, 4 seconds
ultimately uh I'm I'm just going to I was ungovernable incorraable as as at
1 hour, 3 minutes, 12 seconds
that point in my life if if you said something to me um you know I didn't necessarily I I didn't care who you were
1 hour, 3 minutes, 21 seconds
I I wasn't necessarily going to do that and I might just hit you, you know,
1 hour, 3 minutes, 25 seconds
because that was just my response to life at that point. So, uh, eventually I made my way right back to that house.
1 hour, 3 minutes, 34 seconds
So,
1 hour, 3 minutes, 35 seconds
uh, I can tell you that throughout the process of trying to work with me, Jane Goodall was one of the people that
1 hour, 3 minutes, 44 seconds
worked with me. So, I know that she is still alive. I think she's still alive. I think she's 91 now. Yeah.
1 hour, 3 minutes, 51 seconds
And she might recall having worked with me because I I would have been one of the strangest cases she ever had because
1 hour, 4 minutes
at around that time frame, I had made the decision that I would no longer let anybody get within arms reach of me. And
1 hour, 4 minutes, 6 seconds
if they did, I just I'd fight for my life.
1 hour, 4 minutes, 10 seconds
So, you know, people had to stay away from me. I could talk. I mean, I wasn't like a a feral animal, but I just would
1 hour, 4 minutes, 18 seconds
not allow people within my personal space anymore. And because of her work, you know, with with
1 hour, 4 minutes, 26 seconds
apes and everything with gorillas, you know, they they kind of reached out to her to make contact with me to see if they could help me.
1 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds
Yeah.
1 hour, 4 minutes, 40 seconds
And did you talk to Jean Good at all about what you'd experienced getting trafficked? I know when you and I spoke
1 hour, 4 minutes, 48 seconds
by email messenger you said was from during about 1978 to 1986 is what you
1 hour, 4 minutes, 55 seconds
remembered 9 to 13 but you're not sure it could have been as early as 6 or 7 years old.
1 hour, 5 minutes, 1 second
Right. Right. I don't really start remembering what was going on till about 10 or 11 and uh I just know that it
1 hour, 5 minutes, 10 seconds
happened before that. I can I can remember being sexually assaulted by family, uh that's some of my very first memories.
1 hour, 5 minutes, 18 seconds
So, um but as far as taking me to other places at these parties and and whatnot, I I I
1 hour, 5 minutes, 28 seconds
know that that sort of thing was happening, but I just don't have a good enough recollection to really piece together much of a story. So whether you
1 hour, 5 minutes, 36 seconds
were six or seven years old or or 10 or 11 years old with the parties when you came, right?
1 hour, 5 minutes, 44 seconds
I know family was assaulting me and then friends of family were assaulting me as early as six or seven. I I know that some of my very first memories
1 hour, 5 minutes, 53 seconds
are of being assaulted. Um but as far as taking me to places to make money at
1 hour, 6 minutes
these parties, I don't have a clear recollection. It may have happened as early as the the first sexual assaults that were happening with family. Um, but
1 hour, 6 minutes, 9 seconds
I don't have a clear recollection if that was going on to that scale at that time, but do have a recollection from about 10 or 11.
1 hour, 6 minutes, 18 seconds
Okay. So,
1 hour, 6 minutes, 26 seconds
how much I know.
1 hour, 6 minutes, 28 seconds
No, no, it's it's okay. I'm I'm I'm glad you're you're you and I are able to have such a thorough discussion and and I
1 hour, 6 minutes, 37 seconds
appreciate again how straightforward forthright you are. You know, it's it's extremely important. Um,
1 hour, 6 minutes, 44 seconds
I mean there's a part of me that just wants to point fingers in every direction, but I have I have really
1 hour, 6 minutes, 50 seconds
thought about, okay, what do I recall vividly enough that
1 hour, 6 minutes, 59 seconds
uh that I would put my hand on the Bible in a courtroom, raise my hand, and say,
1 hour, 7 minutes, 2 seconds
"Yep, that's the truth." And and what I am as close to 100% certain that if you put me on a polygraph, it would come back just as perfect. Yeah.
1 hour, 7 minutes, 14 seconds
So, there are other things that I could maybe point fingers at, but then it kind of gets into muddying the water because I don't really remember them that well.
1 hour, 7 minutes, 23 seconds
Well, I think that's why I've just Yeah. No, that's that's good. And I think what what I'd like to do like
1 hour, 7 minutes, 30 seconds
we'll continue, you know, discussing a bit about we're talking about now. um the things that you're le
1 hour, 7 minutes, 38 seconds
sure of. I'd like to look at a a second a a dis a conversation just entirely
1 hour, 7 minutes, 45 seconds
focused on what you're not sure of just because I think there is some important information there. But I don't want to muddy the waters in terms of what we're
1 hour, 7 minutes, 53 seconds
speaking about now that you that you are willing to testify in a court of law about. So, so let's f continue focusing
1 hour, 8 minutes, 2 seconds
about any of the details about what you're willing to swear to in a court of law and then right,
1 hour, 8 minutes, 9 seconds
you know, then let's look at I would maybe look at say a second discussion and any any follow on questions from
1 hour, 8 minutes, 17 seconds
this discussion or I might just look at getting everything transcribed and I'm just going to look at it raw because
1 hour, 8 minutes, 23 seconds
honestly in terms of um you know all the there's Obviously
1 hour, 8 minutes, 30 seconds
thousands and thousands of of pieces of video footage film that the
1 hour, 8 minutes, 36 seconds
FBI took that's all gone into some whoever's been trying to profit off of
1 hour, 8 minutes, 44 seconds
is nonsense. So my what I'm looking at I'm thinking even a a combination like just a brief summary for me like a
1 hour, 8 minutes, 52 seconds
paragraph and I'll even look at at just publishing the raw audio file of our discussion okay
1 hour, 8 minutes, 59 seconds
with the text messages because I think the context is really important I think especially because there's been so much
1 hour, 9 minutes, 7 seconds
collusion regarding copy editing of video footage that you know folks that
1 hour, 9 minutes, 14 seconds
are really wanting that are genuinely wanting justice. You know, for them to just hear the audio recordings and read the text messages is plain as day.
1 hour, 9 minutes, 24 seconds
Anybody that experiences an ounce of integrity will be able to discern the truth. And I think it's so important.
1 hour, 9 minutes, 34 seconds
I love that decision.
1 hour, 9 minutes, 35 seconds
And I I kind of wanted to discuss one other thing too. one kind of theme at these parties that
1 hour, 9 minutes, 44 seconds
that seemed to be [snorts] very uh very well thought out is
1 hour, 9 minutes, 51 seconds
they would have a larger party in the beginning, right? And and in these larger parties, you might have say uh a
1 hour, 9 minutes, 58 seconds
couple of fights or some drug use or uh you know things that that that that were
1 hour, 10 minutes, 7 seconds
kind of we say mildly illegal. But the parties would go on for multiple days and as the uh thing wound down to the
1 hour, 10 minutes, 16 seconds
smaller inner circle in the last day or last two days or whatever, that's when the really horrible [ __ ] happened. Mhm.
1 hour, 10 minutes, 24 seconds
So, some of the people that attended the party, possibly even people like Clarence Thomas or Lindsey Graham, may have been involved in lesser things,
1 hour, 10 minutes, 34 seconds
uh, but then were also at the uh, same time and place where these more horrible things happened, but they didn't
1 hour, 10 minutes, 43 seconds
necessarily participate in those more horrible things. So that seemed to be an underlying theme of and and this is just
1 hour, 10 minutes, 52 seconds
me speculating here as an adult where they would try to get these affluent people in all of these positions of of power and influence to come participate
1 hour, 11 minutes, 1 second
in these parties where all of these things were going on so that you know if Clarence Thomas I'll just use him if he
1 hour, 11 minutes, 10 seconds
was there at the party well then surely nothing you know that nefarious could be going on type of situations. Yeah.
1 hour, 11 minutes, 22 seconds
But as the party wound down, that's when people in my position would would really begin to get scared because that's when
1 hour, 11 minutes, 30 seconds
either going to get assaulted and maybe really busted up or, you know, I mean,
1 hour, 11 minutes, 35 seconds
even watching somebody die is is really [ __ ] horrible, you know. Did
1 hour, 11 minutes, 42 seconds
Did it Did you see anyone else die besides um Samantha and and Patricia?
1 hour, 11 minutes, 51 seconds
Yes. Yes.
1 hour, 11 minutes, 52 seconds
So, uh I watched I watched a grown man get beaten to death. He had done something
1 hour, 12 minutes, 2 seconds
uh that pissed off the people that were running it and they killed him. I saw another girl the in addition to Patricia
1 hour, 12 minutes, 10 seconds
when I was making the film with the girl they came in and shot her while we were having sex. That was some sort of snuff film. Yeah.
1 hour, 12 minutes, 18 seconds
Um and then in the brothel there were two people that got killed.
1 hour, 12 minutes, 24 seconds
Uh Sarah killed herself and then a girl I don't remember her name. She was she was shot and killed and then another girl was also shot and killed.
1 hour, 12 minutes, 35 seconds
Okay. And all I can remember No, go ahead.
1 hour, 12 minutes, 38 seconds
Me and Samantha having to clean up. Uh we didn't have to do anything with the body, but I can remember me and Samantha had to clean up the blood and everything from from both Sarah Sarah's suicide,
1 hour, 12 minutes, 52 seconds
which was an assisted suicide. Samantha actually shot Sarah. Um but Sarah wanted her to do it. She couldn't pull the
1 hour, 12 minutes, 59 seconds
trigger herself. So that's just so Samantha did it. I was in the room when she did,
1 hour, 13 minutes, 7 seconds
but it wasn't it wasn't a murder.
1 hour, 13 minutes, 9 seconds
Samantha didn't murder her. Sarah just I can remember her just saying, "I just I can't go to another party. I can't be here. Please." You know,
1 hour, 13 minutes, 19 seconds
another of the victims, I don't know if you've read about, uh, the British woman Sarah Ransom was on the Epstein Island and and tried
1 hour, 13 minutes, 28 seconds
to swim off the island and was willing to drown than then go through another Yeah. torture. I mean, it's it's some horrible horrible [ __ ]
1 hour, 13 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah.
1 hour, 13 minutes, 38 seconds
And, you know, it's it I can remember the the hillbillies that my dad sold me to when I was small. They were mean.
1 hour, 13 minutes, 48 seconds
Um, but I can remember the meanest [ __ ] are those rich people.
1 hour, 13 minutes, 54 seconds
They are just demonic. Trump included.
1 hour, 13 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. Well, I'm going to ask you some questions there again. So, with the the the rich folks that you were sold to,
1 hour, 14 minutes, 6 seconds
that was all associated with with the Epstein Trump trafficking ring. And you said to me you thought Trump ran things with Epstein. Is that true?
1 hour, 14 minutes, 17 seconds
Oh yes. He was not just a a client. He was one of the the people that facilitated all that stuff.
1 hour, 14 minutes, 25 seconds
It it was almost like uh and this is just my childhood brain piecing it together. It was almost as if
1 hour, 14 minutes, 33 seconds
Epstein worked for Trump and not just Trump but him and maybe six or eight
1 hour, 14 minutes, 40 seconds
other super rich guys. So, do you remember ran it? Yeah.
1 hour, 14 minutes, 46 seconds
At the behest of Trump and and that circle of people. So, it was it was just a I I couldn't tell you how many people,
1 hour, 14 minutes, 54 seconds
but he was the only one that that that I remember that was at that level. But
1 hour, 15 minutes, 3 seconds
it wasn't that Trump was a John visiting, you know, Epstein's empire of of uh you know, uh child
1 hour, 15 minutes, 13 seconds
victims. It was Trump was in a position above Epstein. It was as if Epstein worked for Trump.
1 hour, 15 minutes, 22 seconds
Yeah. And the rest of those ultra rich guys. Do you remember?
1 hour, 15 minutes, 29 seconds
Like he ran that ring for them. No. No. I understand. I so so red so so
1 hour, 15 minutes, 37 seconds
Jeffrey was sort of presented publicly as the ring leader of the pedophile
1 hour, 15 minutes, 44 seconds
[clears throat] ring but Jeffrey was basically behaving like uh like a general manager of the ring and then there was seven or eight other
1 hour, 15 minutes, 51 seconds
individuals such as Trump that were actually actively running the ring micromanaging telling Jeffrey what to do.
1 hour, 16 minutes, 1 second
they he he would give Epstein that caliber of person because I it
1 hour, 16 minutes, 10 seconds
wasn't just Epstein. Epstein had people that worked with him too on a on a lower level that would go like find runaways and stuff like that.
1 hour, 16 minutes, 18 seconds
Yeah.
1 hour, 16 minutes, 19 seconds
So I don't I don't know where they got the people. I can't I can't say that.
1 hour, 16 minutes, 23 seconds
But you know it was it was this this whole thing was being run as a Yeah. and for those rich people.
1 hour, 16 minutes, 31 seconds
Yeah. I I want to ask some more questions in terms of your sense of like the demonic
1 hour, 16 minutes, 38 seconds
um some of some of the the advisory work
1 hour, 16 minutes, 45 seconds
I've done, some of my own specifics of law enforcement.
1 hour, 16 minutes, 54 seconds
Um, you know, I've come into contact I've minimized any content with I'm familiar with a lot of really horrific
1 hour, 17 minutes, 2 seconds
horror stories that involve um, Satanists, occult practitioners,
1 hour, 17 minutes, 8 seconds
theistic Satanists. You know, I've I've spoken to folks that um, were able to get out of the theistic Satanist cults.
1 hour, 17 minutes, 17 seconds
A lot of the torture techniques you describe are similar to theistic Satanist torture techniques. um sexual torture,
1 hour, 17 minutes, 26 seconds
human trafficking, human countibism and what I want I I you know what what's your sense in terms of these parties
1 hour, 17 minutes, 35 seconds
that that what do you remember like was there any overt I know a lot of the attendees presented themselves as
1 hour, 17 minutes, 42 seconds
Christians but their practices are are full-blown demonic satanic do you have the sense that any of them
1 hour, 17 minutes, 51 seconds
were actually secretly practicing ing any sort of occult rituals or were they just like rich fish fake Christians that just didn't experience a conscience?
1 hour, 18 minutes, 2 seconds
I think it's the latter. Just rich fake Christians. I can I can tell you uh one thing specifically that Trump did.
1 hour, 18 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah. And uh that I remember vividly. He uh I
1 hour, 18 minutes, 17 seconds
was exhausted and I couldn't fight back and he sat on my chest and would choke
1 hour, 18 minutes, 25 seconds
me until I was unconscious. And each time that he did it, he'd say, "I'm going to kill you." So, and then he would choke me until I was out. And you
1 hour, 18 minutes, 33 seconds
know, he did that, you know, half a dozen times or however many times. And I can remember him saying, "I thought I
1 hour, 18 minutes, 41 seconds
killed you that time. I'm really going to do it this time." and then choked me again. So he would just do that over and over again until he got bored of it.
1 hour, 18 minutes, 50 seconds
So that's Did you get the sense that he was trying to kill you or just to torture you about the thought
1 hour, 18 minutes, 57 seconds
in in the moment? In the moment you think you're going to die? Yeah. And that that's the experience that that he
1 hour, 19 minutes, 5 seconds
wants to see the fear in another human being's eyes that thinks that that that he's killing them, you know.
1 hour, 19 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah. Um, but looking back, I just think he was just torturing me. You know, I don't think I think if had he wanted to
1 hour, 19 minutes, 18 seconds
kill me, he could have, you know, he could have just kept choking me until I was I was gone. Cuz I did I did get
1 hour, 19 minutes, 26 seconds
choked until I was unconscious. I don't know, as many as half a dozen times, maybe more. Yeah. You know, uh,
1 hour, 19 minutes, 34 seconds
so that's the type of thing that he would do or worse, you know. Um, I believe I wouldn't swear to this, but I
1 hour, 19 minutes, 42 seconds
believe that on that instance they had told my dad had told him, "Hey,
1 hour, 19 minutes, 49 seconds
you can't bust him up. You can't break stuff." Um, you know, because all his CPS [ __ ]
1 hour, 19 minutes, 57 seconds
Yeah.
1 hour, 19 minutes, 59 seconds
So, and and I want to say I want to say he was upset at the end of that, too,
1 hour, 20 minutes, 4 seconds
because of the bruising. you know, they didn't break bones or anything. Uh,
1 hour, 20 minutes, 10 seconds
but, you know, obviously I had bruising around my neck and different bruises on my body and and uh uh that's something
1 hour, 20 minutes, 19 seconds
else, too, that that I'm just remembering right now as I'm talking to you, at least one instance, the school nurse uh got CPS involved, I believe.
1 hour, 20 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah.
1 hour, 20 minutes, 31 seconds
in both Tennessee and Alabama because of the bruises that I showed up to school with. Yeah.
1 hour, 20 minutes, 38 seconds
You know, of course, my parents just said, "Hey, he's clumsy. You know, he fell out of a treehouse or whatever
1 hour, 20 minutes, 43 seconds
excuse they gave, you know, um but there was it was looked into, but obviously nothing nothing materialized from it."
1 hour, 20 minutes, 55 seconds
Okay. So,
1 hour, 21 minutes
let me see. Can I call you back in about 10 minutes? Sure.
1 hour, 21 minutes, 5 seconds
I just I just want to make sure I've got the recording set, you know, that I want to get into a file folder and get some duplicates and then I'll call you back.
1 hour, 21 minutes, 16 seconds
Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Talk to you in a minute. Bye-bye.
1 hour, 21 minutes, 26 seconds
[music]
1 hour, 21 minutes, 36 seconds
[music]
1 hour, 21 minutes, 44 seconds
[music]